more recent-ish media

[rose_griffes]

Movies first. Thor: Ragnarok was a visual delight, a solid story, and genuinely funny and fun. I was so pleasantly surprised, especially since the second Thor movie was a bit of a slog and a downer. The few problems I had with this one are mostly residual from the narrative in Thor 2, so I did some hand-waving and we're good!

The Greatest Showman has a paper-thin plot gluing a bunch of really fun and showy music videos together. I'm not sure if the real P.T. Barnum would be proud or appalled (he was not a pleasant man), but the real Jenny Lind would be upset. Since she's been dead for more than a century, I'm gonna let it slide.

The music is catchy and upbeat enough that I might buy the soundtrack at some point. Or at least some individual songs.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi is one of those films that doesn't stand up to the next day test: when your brain has had enough time to digest the film, pick apart some of the plot holes and other problems, and you weigh that against the enjoyment of the overall experience. Put it this way: I haven't seen the movie a second time (I watched The Force Awakens twice in the theatre), and I won't buy the movie later either (I own The Force Awakens on blu-ray).

In fact, the more I think about The Last Jedi and the bone-deep problems it has, the more I'm angry about it; not just for this being a movie that could have done better, but also because it makes The Force Awakens worse in retrospect. Some of the "let's wait and see what they do in the next film" moments from episode VII are wrecked by episode VIII.

I'd say more but I'd start capslocking in rage. You can ask me in comments if you want to know more of the reasons I'm deeply displeased about this film, but there are plenty of them. *sigh*

edited to add: this entry now comes with bonus capslocky ranting in the comments on dreamwidth

I got Wonder Woman on blu-ray for Christmas, so I've rewatched that a couple of times now, and I still adore it.

Books! Dreamland Burning by Jennifer Latham delves into the Tulsa race riots of 1921. (A lot of white people rioted through Tulsa's thriving black neighborhoods, destroying them and resulting in dozens? hundreds? thousands? of deaths; there's not an exact toll, because the entire event was quickly buried.) The book flashes back and forth between the past and present. I thought it was well-researched, thoughtful, with a solid story and well-intended, but there are definitely moments, plural, where the author's experiences as a white woman make for a slightly off feel for the past and present-day narrators, who are both mixed race.

Margot Shetterly's historical narrative Hidden Figures was published in 2016. It delves into a larger time frame than the scope of the film, and has a more nuanced view about lots of events. There's also a lot more science, but it was still a clear enough read, even for me.

Uprooted is my first Naomi Novik novel in several years. I read the first three (?) of her Temeraire series before my interest fizzled out. I think she's a capable writer who often chooses narratives that prioritize men, and I just got worn out, I think. So many men! So few women! So little free time to read have I, so why am I going to keep reading a series that only grudgingly gives time and space to women in the story?

Oops, that was a bit of a rant. Anyway, Uprooted was solid enough. There's a surprisingly graphic sex scene at one point; surprising because the narrative wasn't built in such a way that I wanted or expected it. Also, I'm rather done with much older man plus young woman who saves him from his curmudgeonly ways with her magical vagina. But if you're a Novik fan, it will probably fill the gap nicely before her next Temeraire book. (Heh. Fill the gap. *wink wink nudge nudge*)

I finished Bitterblue, by Kristin Cashore, and while it doesn't replace Paladin of Souls and my beloved Ista, it does satisfy my desire to read about women of political power dealing with magical elements.

TV!!!! All the exclamation marks because I'm swooningly in love with season two of The Good Place. What a show. I'm amazed that this season is just so solid, and so much fun. The way season one ended was a blast but I wasn't sure they'd be able to pull off a good second season with that finale. I'm happy to be wrong. And I would say more about how this season has been so great, but it would be massively spoilery and I think anyone who jumps into this show now should have the chance to try it unspoiled.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s fifth season isn't quite as strong as season four, but it's definitely entertaining. While season four was almost everything I could have asked for with this specific show, I'm satisfied enough with the current direction to be glad that it's still on air. Even if it's also a shame to have some of television's most gorgeous actors covered in blue makeup to play the alien Kree overlords.

Comments

[rose_griffes]

Daybreak asked me about characterization problems I had in the comments on someone else's entry about Star Wars: The Last Jedi. So for starters:

-While Leia has always been a woman with a passionate temperament, I was still shocked to see her slap Poe Dameron, an officer under her command. There were other moments where Leia's actions felt off to me as well, but since I refused to pay to see this movie again, I can't get more specific for now. Maybe once it shows up on Netflix.

-Good heavens, these writers did some horrible things with Poe Dameron. Yes, his screen time was short in Episode VII, but he was still present enough for me to have a feel for his character. That was erased by episode VIII: from excellent pilot, good judge of character, and kind human being to "hotheaded, doesn't respect authority, irresponsible."

(I wasn't even all that interested in Poe in The Force Awakens, which means that if the change in characterization felt jarring to ME, someone who is definitely not a Poe stan, it must have felt incredibly wrong to fans who were really attached to him.)

-Finn. It felt like a lot of his growth in VII was just ignored.

(Side note: whose idea was it to shock a black man TWO TIMES in this film? Especially since neither was actually necessary? And the way they treated his injuries is way off from how Star Wars has traditionally treated its wounded heroes: it was all for laughs. So funny when Finn hits his head two times when he wakes up! So funny when his bacta suit leaks fluid all over the place because apparently the whole sickbay had no one attending any patients! So funny when he gets knocked back several feet from that first shock! So funny when he can't feel his tongue or limbs or whatever it was after that shock!

And that second shock Finn got was for a parking violation. UGH. I AM FURIOUS.)

-Rey's characterization felt off as well, but I'd need to watch again to give more specifics about her too.

[rose_griffes]

ALSO! Rey's arc was about discovering herself to be a hero, but to do that, she had to spend almost her entire screen time trying to persuade white men to step up. First Luke, then Kylo Ren. WHY DO I WANT TO SEE MY FIRST WOMAN JEDI* SPEND ALL OF HER SCREEN TIME TRYING TO CONVINCE EITHER A GRUMPY CURMUDGEON TO TRAIN HER OR A SPACE FASCIST** TO JOIN HER SIDE?

*Jedi, or lightsaber wielder, or whatever... (Talking about the movies, by the way. I'm aware there are women Jedi in the extended universe.)

**Why did we need to ask the question, "Can this space fascist be saved from his own bad choices?" Why did Rey have to be the person to ask that question with her screen time when there were so many other things she could have been doing?

[daybreak]

I love your capslock of rage even though I really enjoyed this film. I may have to rewatch it! Happily! To comment further. :-)

Why did Rey have to be the person to ask that question with her screen time when there were so many other things she could have been doing?
Sadly, it's what Jedis do. I was annoyed by the lack of aliens in the film and how they killed Admiral Akbar right away.

The thing that really didn't work? Leia should have died in space. But since I'm still mourning Carrie Fish I couldn't lobby for that even though it's realistic. She had no space suit, nothing. Is it bad that I never wanted Leia to die? Sigh.

Also, Rose's sister died right away. I'm glad for a diverse cast, I didn't like that she died right away.

[rose_griffes]

Yeah, I was disappointed about Paige (Rose's sister) as well.

Re: Admiral Ackbar and others. Rian Johnson (writer/director for this one) almost never gave anyone a moment to grieve. No honoring the dead, other than Rose's brief tears for Paige. This movie was set immediately after Han's death, but nothing was put in the script to honor him. You mentioned Ackbar; I can remember thinking of other moments at some point where they just skipped right past the chance to mourn the dead... it was frustrating to me that in a film with the theme of failure, we never get much of a sense of the weight of all the losses on an individual, emotional level.

[daybreak]

I feel you on that I really do. But I think Carrie Fisher's untimely death is all over this film. Yes, she completed it. Yes, her family okayed them using her footage. But still, if they had started mourning the dead I would have lost it and it would have changed the hopeful note the movie sorta ends on. I just don't think anyone could have handled grieving when a beloved cast member actually did pass away.

The third movie was to be Leia's movie. So now what? I do believe that Rey was supposed to be her daughter. I know, everyone hates Jedi twins. Well, I don't. But only Carrie Fisher could have sold a scene why she gave her kid away. Without her, we are at the mercy of J.J. Abrams' script next movie. I have no faith in him whatsoever after Lost.

So I'm holding on to this film tight with both hands. Honestly? The previous films weren't that diverse, Billy D. and Samuel J. notwithstanding. I don't love that but it's consistent. Sadly, I don't expect diversity in films like this.

It's the middle film, so I'm sure that Finn's character will be tended to. Poe, I don't like him so . . . I kinda don't care? I don't hate him, just am whatever about him.

I like that Kylo Ren was a little less emo and better acted. I like the connection he and Rey have, at least narratively. (Imagine if Leoben had been in Kara's mind, literally.) I like that the women were awesome and the fight scene was good.

I like that Luke has PTSD and loses his shit when he thinks a young Jedi might explore the dark side. Why wouldn't he momentarily be freaked out? I was a bit surprised that he was equally freaked years later when Rey wanted to explore similarly but narratively it worked for me.

Didn't like the frog nuns. :-) That's what my friend called them when we saw them. I'm going to miss Luke. I'm going to miss that trio--Luke, Leia, and Han. We'll never see them on screen in new scenes ever again. A bit of my childhood . . . died.

Rey will have PLENTY OF FILMS to shine. Good thing I really like Daisy. :-)

This is the franchise that never ends . . . yes, it goes on and on my friends . . . George Lucas started filming it and he knew what it was . . . and they'll continue filming it forever just because . . .

[rose_griffes]

...we are at the mercy of J.J. Abrams' script next movie. I have no faith in him whatsoever after Lost.
I get that. Abrams is good at starting things, not so good at ending them. He wouldn't have been my top choice to direct IX, that's for sure.

On the other hand: Abrams is the one who pushed hard to give John Boyega the role of Finn. So I'm warily hopeful that at least Finn's narrative will get him back as the male lead of this trilogy, which is what Abrams established in The Force Awakens.

I like that Luke has PTSD and loses his shit when he thinks a young Jedi might explore the dark side. Why wouldn't he momentarily be freaked out?

I go back and forth about Luke's story. What consistently bothers me is not so much Luke and Depression Island (a mostly understandable poor choice, after making a big mistake with his nephew), it's that the humor was so uncomfortable and forced. But that was not just a Luke thing, it was throughout the movie.

Frog nuns: I called them fish nuns myself, but frog nuns is probably better, since they're on land.

[daybreak]

it's that the humor was so uncomfortable and forced.
The humor WAS forced. Almost campy. People liked the fake phone call to the Empire in the beginning but that didn't work for me. As for Luke? A lot of that was Mark Hamill. No, he shouldn't have been allowed to inject his humor into Luke but he was Luke and after 30 years, I'm sure they gave him a pass. It was forced but it didn't distract me from the major plot points. His fear of Kylo Ren and his regret and shame. HIs dedication to the Jedi and his spiritual practice. And his self-sacrifice. No wife, no kids, no family for 30 years. The humor didn't take away from all that for me.

[rose_griffes]

I really disliked the phone call scene too. And I would say I'm glad to know I'm not alone, since you don't like it either, but honestly... I've talked to a lot of people who feel the same way. So I already knew I wasn't alone, heh.

[daybreak]

I loved the film, I did. I went with seven other co-workers right before my holiday break and were on such a high afterward. :-)

But something about Star Wars is campy now. But it's a franchise, like Doctor Who, that will go on forever. But without the Britishness which is inherently stylish. :-) I don't know if a series like that can have the same earnestness for decades at a time. And I don't know if the writers right now even want to.

I hope this trilogy ends well. For Carrie Fisher's memory if for nothing else.

[rose_griffes]

I agree with most of this post about The Last Jedi. Oh, and here are a lot of tumblr posts dissecting some of the film's problems.

It's grimly amusing to me that there are men's rights activists who apparently also hated this movie. Enough so that someone made a woman-free edit of the film, apparently? Which led to someone on tumblr asking the pointed question: what would happen if all of the characters of color were removed from this film? And I think the answer is that the main narrative would still flow reasonably well... that's how disconnected the plots of Poe, Finn, and Rose were from the central action.

That, to me, is a real problem with this story. It's not that Finn or Poe didn't have character arcs, however flawed they were. It's that those character arcs were shoved into a story that didn't want to make space for them. Kylo Ren's sob story is the center of gravity, along with the Rebellion Resistance versus The Empire The First Order.

[rose_griffes]

Finn versus Phasma: their screen time should have had a greater buildup and a bigger showdown. Phasma was the face of the First Order for Finn; she was his direct superior. We built up Finn's arc about breaking away from the First Order in TFA; their confrontation should have been EPIC. Instead it was... brief. A few quick shots, a fast resolution, and then onto the next thing.

I felt robbed.

[frith]

It's probably fortunate that all I really remember from Episode VII is the horribly flawed Death Planet tech and interstellar distances depictions from that movie.

Rogue One was a good movie.

[rose_griffes]

I come from a Star Wars family. We rewatched The Force Awakens together during Thanksgiving vacation, in preparation for The Last Jedi. So it was fairly fresh in my mind as I went to watch The Last Jedi.

[helen_c]

I haven't seen Thor Ragnarok yet, but I'm hearing a lot of good things about it and the gifs I see on Tumblr are awesome. :)

I'm liking the second season of The Good Place a lot as well, though I haven't seen the newest episodes yet.

As for The Last Jedi... Yeah, didn't like it much either. Poe felt completely off, I got the feeling that Rey spent days running after Luke, who then gave her three hours of training before she left. What the...
Mostly, I found the movie too long, and the various storylines completely disconnected from one another.

[rose_griffes]

I am honestly amazed at how good this season of The Good Place is! *fistbump of solidarity*

The Last Jedi was just such a disappointment overall. Meh. I hope Abrams can wrap things up well, but he's been dealt a lousy hand. Good luck to him.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

I haven't been able to rewatch TFA since TLJ, and I haven't been able to rewatch TLJ either... and when I say "haven't been able" I mean I am angry enough at the narrative betrayal of Finn, and of Luke, and honestly of Rey as well, that I'm trying really hard to set Star Wars aside.

Considering my history with Kara/Leoben, you'd think I'd understand the appeal of Rey/Kylo, but it doesn't ping with me in the same way at all. Probably because the narrative prioritizes Kylo, and robs Rey of agency in ways that Kara wasn't. Which is super ironic, considering that Kara was literally robbed of agency by Leoben at one point.

(Rey is supposed to be a leading woman and the face of the new generation of Jedi. Instead she was a cog in an ensemble story that focused on the Skywalkers, uncle and nephew. I didn't want Kylo's story; I wanted Rey's, and Finn's. This is why the Rey random reveal is a problem for me: not because I object to Rey as a nobody, but because it prioritizes Kylo as the only Skywalker in this generation.)

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

Re: shipping and fannish polarization.
I don't know where and how you tried to engage with other Rey x Kylo shippers, but tumblr is a terrible format for fandom and that encourages the worst elements of shipping and anti-shipping, in my opinion.

(I've said before that livejournal is like a hotel, and tumblr is like a hostel: similar main ideas, very different 'feeling' to the experiences.)

I do have negative feelings about Rey x Kylo as a fandom thing, in part because the loudest voices in the tumblr void had a tendency to narrate Kylo as the male lead and Finn as a side character, long before episode 8 did exactly that.

Not to mention the "Finn is a benevolent misogynist for taking Rey's hand, unlike Kylo Ren, who really respects Rey!" meta that I read almost two years ago, and the "Finn is a beta male and inferior to Rey, who deserves an alpha male like Kylo Ren" meta that I also read almost two years ago.

In other words: Fandom really does have a way of producing the most racist sort of metas without ever saying the word racism. It's impressively awful. And that's part of why I had negative feelings about Rey x Kylo Ren years before watching episode 8.

Eurhg. Enough about that, though. Have you found any place to engage with other fans of the ship that feels semi-comfortable and has some nuance to it? If not, I sincerely wish you the best of luck, because I have no idea where such a place might exist.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

I wasn't done thinking about your comment.

So part of what appealed to you with Rey x Kylo in episode 8 was the specific dynamic within that movie, and how it resonated with what you've written for Kara x Leoben? Which... of course! Visions, shared or otherwise, would totally work as a draw for you. Heh.

Not only did I emphatically not ship Rey x Kylo after either film, I actually felt a gut-level revulsion at the idea of it after episode 7. To the point where, when I first encountered the very idea of shipping them, I was... hm, maybe aghast would be a good description.

It was a strong enough negative reaction that I eventually forced myself to pick it apart (http://rose-griffes.tumblr.com/post/161446756899/i-was-thinking-about-that-gut-level-yikes-reaction), because I was curious about why I had such different feelings about Rey x Kylo versus Kara x Leoben, even before I started running into fandom's "Finn is a benevolent misogynist/beta male/inferior" justifications for not shipping Rey x Finn.

The Last Jedi changed one of the pieces that was missing previously: I do now see Kylo's interest in Rey. But the other pieces haven't changed, and I still find Kylo Ren not-interesting as a character. Also, he took up narrative space that I wanted for Rey.

What are your hopes for Rey x Kylo in episode 9? Do you think the narrative is likely to deliver what you would like to see?

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

Agreed, I don't want to see Rey onscreen as a mother within this trilogy.

Agree to disagree (heh, rather obviously) about Rey, Kylo, and love; transformative or not, I'm not interested in that for him and her. If that's part of the narrative in IX, it will have to be done extremely well.

I have no idea where the narrative will go with Kylo Ren. Redemptive death has both pros and cons for me. Outside of my own preferences, it's definitely an overdone trope, but this is Star Wars, so...

I could imagine the possibility of Kylo Ren living on and still evil, because it would save LucasFilm from having to undo everything for the inevitable fourth Skywalker trilogy in the way they undid some things from the original trilogy to write this one.

I like the idea of Rey as Space Martin Luther, although considering that the Jedi tomes she saved from the island were so dry as to be unreadable, I don't know how she's going to get anything worthwhile out of them.

I'm now imagining a series of sequences where Rey tries to read the books and keeps falling asleep. Which would tie into that popular fannish joke about how the title of episode IX would be "From His Nap". (The Force Awakens - The Last Jedi - From His (or her!) Nap)

Related to that train of thought: the Force-related stuff makes very little sense in this trilogy. Why was the Force "asleep" so that it needed to be awakened, anyway? Rey random is fine, but apparently she's super-powerful and good because Kylo is super-powerful and bad?

I do think that making Finn force-sensitive could help, both with some of the ways that the Force doesn't make any sense in the writing of this trilogy, and with making sure the narrative does a better job of including Finn.

Anyway. Force-sensitive or not, what I want for Finn most of all is for him to be the male lead that he was established to be in episode VII. That includes the fulfillment of the many ways he and Kylo were narrative foils in episode VII. (The child of galactic leaders moves deeper into darkness, while a child stripped away from his family runs to the light.) Give Finn and Kylo some meaningful scenes together, Abrams!

Finn x Rey: I would love to see a happy ending, complete with at least one kiss on the lips. While I think a romance between those two would be easy to include without it overshadowing other elements, I'm not going to hold my breath. A whole lot of things in VII led absolutely nowhere in VIII and it's going to be difficult to return to some of those clues in IX without it feeling like a huge leap. Not that this mattered to Rian Johnson when he wrote and directed VIII.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

Further thoughts, as I've had more time to mull over it: it felt much safer to me to ship Kara/Leoben, and I think that stems partially from the source material and partially from the trends in fandom. Oh, and also from me, of course.

Source material:
- While Kara's interactions with Leoben were mesmerizing to me, they were also limited. Only one meeting in all of season one, none in season two... even season three, the goldmine, only had five or six episodes with the two of them actually interacting. So while I loved watching the two of them onscreen together, it was clearly and unambiguously Kara's story.
-Kara had most of the power in their first interaction. That was the setup for me shipping them. I liked season three's power flip too, but I started shipping them when she was in charge.

- Episode 7 had a different power structure in the beginning with Rey and Kylo. I very much identified with Rey's fear when Kylo had her tied up; I didn't care in the least why he was doing it or whether or not he was interested in her. I just wanted her to be able to get away from a horribly traumatic situation. (How much of that is the narrative versus how much is me as a reader, IDK.)
- As you said yourself, Kylo took up a lot of unearned space in the narrative in episode 8. I know you feel confident that this is still Rey's story; I don't.*

Fandom:
- Most of us shipping Kara/Leoben weren't doing so in the expectation of a happy romantic ending for those two together. It was fun to speculate how that could happen, but it wasn't viewed by many as a healthy and happy option in canon anytime soon.
- Long before episode 8 was even finished filming, many fans had already decided that Rey's 'job' as the female protagonist was to save Ben Solo with the power of romantic love. I absolutely loathed that possibility, and still do. We finally get a woman jedi on the big screen and she has to go fall in love with the man who ordered the death of an entire village of disarmed people (including children)? And I'm supposed to root for that? Eugh, no thank you.

- Part of that fannish reframing of Rey's narrative was the racism I'd mentioned upthread. Finn's role as the male lead in episode 7 was reimagined by many of those fans as the comical supporting character in what was going to be Rey and Kylo's story.
- Fandom as it exists on tumblr is just way more fraught. Being stuck in each other's spaces like a youth hostel (tumblr), instead of having private spaces like a hotel conference (comms on livejournal, etc.), is just... frequently unpleasant. To the point that it colors the whole experience for me.

Me:
- Episode 8 earned a(n eternal) grudge from me by basically doing what the fannish reframing of the narrative did: make Finn into a side character.
- With Kara and Leoben, I was not invested in the less destructive Kara x Lee ship option. My investment in Kara x Sam was minimal until the end of season three and the 'secretly a cylon' reveal. And even then I didn't expect a whole lot from the narrative.

- With Rey, though... I've shipped Finn x Rey since the second time I watched episode 7 in the theater, and I will definitely be disappointed if/when they're not a couple by the end of episode 9. I still don't expect a whole lot from the narrative, but oh, I want it. I really, really want it.

*Rian Johnson, who directed ep8, has never written a story that wasn't centered on white men. And for me, it shows.

[imelda72.livejournal.com]

why am I going to keep reading a series that only grudgingly gives time and space to women in the story?

Hear, hear!!

I really want to see Thor Ragnarok -- it looks very funny, everyone raves about it, and I'm a bit in love with Tessa Thompson. How did you see it? Did you get a DVD?

And ooh, Bitterblue. Fire is probably my favorite book that I've read in the past 10 years or so. The first one I didn't like as much, and I barely remember Bitterblue. But Fire is so haunting.... I kind of always want to be reading it.

And The Good Place! Huzzah! Man I love that show, and yeah, really impressed with their plotting this season. I think that the character development has suffered a bit for the sake of plot this season, and I miss that about season 1. I hope they focus again on the characters and their relationships in the next one.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

I watched Thor: Ragnarok about three weeks after it showed up in theaters. It's definitely worth a rental once DVDs are out.

I tried reading Cashore's Fire, but couldn't get very far, which is odd because I loved book one and (obviously) really loved book three. But yeah, never finished the second. *shrug*

Agreed that some of the best character elements in The Good Place didn't get quite as much play in season two. I'm hopeful that the setup for season three succeeds at reintegrating more of that.

[tinny]

Hee, I've been following your Last Jedi rants on tumblr, and while you are the only one who reacted this strongly to the movie, I can't help agreeing with your criticism.

I also love The Good Place s2, I am still surprised at how well they pulled it off. It had huge potential to fail, but for me the second season worked extremely well.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

I think my earliest rant about The Last Jedi still holds: a huge part of my frustration at its mediocrity is that it could easily have been so much better. (My other early criticism about the new trilogy's lack of a plan being to blame for sending me into a spiraling existential crisis also still holds true. Heh.)

Hurrah for The Good Place. I'm looking forward to season three. Although somewhere on tumblr someone pointed out several similarities between TGP and Lost, and I was concerned. Haha. (Mike Shur has a far better track record than JJ Abrams. And isn't it ironic that this is spiraling back to Star Wars.)