rose_griffes (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rose_griffes) wrote2019-07-13 10:38 am
rose_griffes) wrote2019-07-13 10:38 am
Entry tags:
strange things afoot
Seanan McGuire has finally started a book series that doesn't work for me. I've read either two or three novels in her Wayward Children series. In theory, I like the premise: a school for teens who are stuck back in our world, after having strayed into other worlds. Most hope to return to those other worlds, but that outcome is in doubt. For whatever reason--maybe too much dark whimsy?--these books just don't keep my interest in the same way as her other works. It wasn't a "skip to the end" situation; McGuire's prose is competent (even beautiful in these books, because it's more fitting to the characters and situations), her plotting capable. I'm just not going to buy more in this series in the future.
I've seen the first three episodes of Stranger Things, season three. I am not fond of the extremes in the writing for Jim Hopper. It's plausible that he struggles with dealing with his emotions and taking care of a teenage girl, and even figuring out how to date the woman he obviously cares about; however, they've taken it to the point where I'm disliking Hopper. I mean, hopefully it's leading to him getting better at these things, but in the meantime... meh.
Also: the Russians as villains, another meh.
I was almost to the point of stopping, but toward the end of episode three, the pace picked up. Also, I enjoy the "Max and El are friends" part, as well as the "Robin exists" part. (I don't care if Steve dates her or not, although it's something of a foregone conclusion that he will. I just like her.)
I'm not super-interested in Billy's potential redemption (I don't really care either way), but I actually do wonder how much of Billy is left inside the current Billy shell. Kudos to the hair, makeup, and wardrobe team, as well as the actor, for making him so supremely loathsome in spite of his young age.
One less enjoyable element to the Billy storyline was seeing that other lifeguard abducted and then crying in fear when presented to the monster. Just yikes. On the other hand, seeing her incapacitate her parents (also creepy and scary!) is part of what brought my interest level up a notch. So, for now, I'm continuing.
I've seen the first three episodes of Stranger Things, season three. I am not fond of the extremes in the writing for Jim Hopper. It's plausible that he struggles with dealing with his emotions and taking care of a teenage girl, and even figuring out how to date the woman he obviously cares about; however, they've taken it to the point where I'm disliking Hopper. I mean, hopefully it's leading to him getting better at these things, but in the meantime... meh.
Also: the Russians as villains, another meh.
I was almost to the point of stopping, but toward the end of episode three, the pace picked up. Also, I enjoy the "Max and El are friends" part, as well as the "Robin exists" part. (I don't care if Steve dates her or not, although it's something of a foregone conclusion that he will. I just like her.)
I'm not super-interested in Billy's potential redemption (I don't really care either way), but I actually do wonder how much of Billy is left inside the current Billy shell. Kudos to the hair, makeup, and wardrobe team, as well as the actor, for making him so supremely loathsome in spite of his young age.
One less enjoyable element to the Billy storyline was seeing that other lifeguard abducted and then crying in fear when presented to the monster. Just yikes. On the other hand, seeing her incapacitate her parents (also creepy and scary!) is part of what brought my interest level up a notch. So, for now, I'm continuing.
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On Stranger Things..
I am not fond of the extremes in the writing for Jim Hopper. It's plausible that he struggles with dealing with his emotions and taking care of a teenage girl, and even figuring out how to date the woman he obviously cares about; however, they've taken it to the point where I'm disliking Hopper. I mean, hopefully it's leading to him getting better at these things, but in the meantime... meh.
Also: the Russians as villains, another meh.
I wish I could say that aspect of S3 got better, but it doesn't. It gets progressively worse. The Hopper/Joyce pairing this season unfortunately doesn't work and we get interminable bickering to the point in which I wanted to smack various characters upside the head.
I was almost to the point of stopping, but toward the end of episode three, the pace picked up. Also, I enjoy the "Max and El are friends" part, as well as the "Robin exists" part. (I don't care if Steve dates her or not, although it's something of a foregone conclusion that he will. I just like her.)
The whole Robin and Steve story doesn't go the way you think.
Actually the best parts of the series are Steve & Co and Max & EL. Everything else sort of...meh.
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Like a lot of younger authors, McGuire started by writing fanfic. I wonder if there's an echo of that in the dialogue of hers that you don't enjoy?
Hopper/Joyce gets worse?! Oh bleeeeeeaaaaah. I'll have to multi-task during their scenes. I was already doing that just to get through their scenes in those first three episodes.
I am having fun with Steve & Co, including Robin in whatever capacity, so hopefully "doesn't go the way you think" will continue with the fun. Or at least not derail it.
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I don't know. I don't think I'm familiar with her fanfic - so couldn't tell you. The fanfic that I've read that did dialogue well was by older writers (people in their late 40s and 50s, who have a wealth of experience behind them and aren't published, outside of one.)
It's possible. The difficulty is a lot of them aren't trained. They never really took a course and haven't read a lot of good dialogue. And their idea of dialogue is pretty much what they do in text messaging or social media.
Example?
A: How are you?
B: I'm fine.
A: I walked the dog today. See here's a picture.
B: Oh how cute. How'd that go?
A: It went fine.
B: So my Mother came over.
A: Oh. Cool. How is she?
B: She's well.
A': Send her my regards.
Dialogue should further the action or tell you something critical, new or interesting about the characters. Each character should be distinctive in how they speak. And it should be jockeying for position -- it's like writing an action sequence, except verbal swordplay.
Or, with some writers -- they'll write dialogue the way Shakespeare and Jane Austen back in the 1700s. Or, in an clear, crisp academic and rather formal style, that comes across as a bit stodgy to me and my eyes glaze over.
Some people like that sort of thing. Obviously a lot of trade publishers and fans do, it makes me cranky. It's why I haven't been able to read McGuire or Mira Grant (her alias). I have similar problems with Cat Valente, actually.
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Yes, much worse. Apparently the Duffer Brothers were going for Sam and Diane from Cheers, but they can't write dialogue like that or banter. People who can't write romantic banter shouldn't attempt it. The Duffer Brothers cannot write romantic banter to save their lives. Also we get three of these set-ups: Joyce/Hopper, Nancy/Jonathan, and Mike/El. To the point in which I wanted to smack everyone but El upside the head.
I mean they are being chased by icky monsters or trying to save people from them, but spending all their time bickering about nothing. (Actually these bickering sessions are really good examples of bad dialogue or what annoyed me with McGuire's dialogue. The bickering goes in a circle, and doesn't further anything.)
am having fun with Steve & Co, including Robin in whatever capacity, so hopefully "doesn't go the way you think" will continue with the fun. Or at least not derail it.
It doesn't end in a romance. That much I'll tell you. Actually that may be why Steve &Co and Steve/Robin banter actually works -- it's the only one that doesn't end romantically -- at least not in the way you think.
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The same thing applies to the main couple in the first two of her InCryptid book series. But again, the dialogue between the romantic leads is outweighed by other things that I really do like. She does write romances that I enjoy, but they're usually less 'front and center' in the stories.
The Duffer brothers have this problem where they "fix" things in a later season--El and Max as friends feels like a direct reaction to people pointing out the "only girl hates new girl in the group" trope as a problem, for example. Given Netflix's business model, though, it's unlikely that the Duffers will get a chance to fix this.
I've been fairly neutral about Nancy/Jonathan; I didn't really like it early on (given that Jonathan stalked her in season one), but wanting it to go away doesn't really work, so... I mostly just tune it out. If they argue more than before I'm going to go back to disliking it, so we shall see. And so far the problems between Mike and El have their origins in Hopper's actions, although Mike is still a fool. But he's of an age to act like a fool, so it grates less.
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Yep, that's why I gave up halfway through book two of that series. She does not do banter well. It turns into mindless bickering.
It's actually really hard to pull off good "banter". Some writers do it well -- Joss Whedon was good at it, and so were the writers of Cheers. But a lot of writers just do not know how to do it. You sort have to have a snarky or self-deprecating sense of humor to pull it off. And it helps if you do banter in reality -- I banter all the time with co-workers. But if you don't -- you can't write it.
A lot of contemporary romance writers attempt it and fail miserably. The historicals don't quite as much.
The Duffer brothers have this problem where they "fix" things in a later season--El and Max as friends feels like a direct reaction to people pointing out the "only girl hates new girl in the group" trope as a problem, for example. Given Netflix's business model, though, it's unlikely that the Duffers will get a chance to fix this.
Oh that explains why it felt a bit forced to me at first (although I did like it)-- as if they were trying to fix something. Apparently they got a lot of push-back on the net?
Also, rumor has it there will be a fourth and possibly fifth season. So, yes, they'll get a chance to fix it. Although I agree with you regarding Netflix's business model -- Netflix is weird. It cancels things that are popular, and renews things that aren't or should just be limited series.
I've been fairly neutral about Nancy/Jonathan; I didn't really like it early on (given that Jonathan stalked her in season one), but wanting it to go away doesn't really work, so... I mostly just tune it out. If they argue more than before I'm going to go back to disliking it, so we shall see. And so far the problems between Mike and El have their origins in Hopper's actions, although Mike is still a fool. But he's of an age to act like a fool, so it grates less.
You should like the pre-credits ending. (There's a post-credits tag ending that indicates another season is in the works...sort of like the MCU movie post credits endings). So stick with it. Just fast-forward through most of the Joyce/Hopper and Nancy/Jonathan scenes. Jonathan isn't really in it that much -- and he redeems himself.
But he's sort of sidelined. The main male characters in this one are Steve, Mike, Hopper and Dustin. With Steve and Dustin sort of acting as contrast to Hopper and Mike, in that Steve and Dustin are really cool and you adore them, while you sort of want to smack Hopper and Mike upside the head.
There's a heavy feminist angle in this season, more so than before. Which I'm convinced is a reaction to what has been happening the last two years culturally. Let's face it we're in the middle of a very heated cultural war over gender, and that's not going to end any time soon. Everything is commenting on or reflecting it.
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I believe so! Which, given that El and Max's friendship is one of the reasons I'm still watching, is definitely a good thing.
Audience influence is such a tricky thing; there are times when I wish the writers would ignore what the loudest online audience members are saying. Other times, like this? It's a plus. (This is only going to happen more, in my opinion. And, in line with your comment about a cultural war over gender, I'll applaud the Duffer brothers for at least making an effort to improve in that aspect... even if they didn't succeed well in every instance.)
Also, rumor has it there will be a fourth and possibly fifth season. So, yes, they'll get a chance to fix it. Although I agree with you regarding Netflix's business model -- Netflix is weird. It cancels things that are popular, and renews things that aren't or should just be limited series.
Yup. I mean, if the goal is always to bring in more subscribers, then it makes sense. But that's a drawback for those shows that would really shine with more seasons, y'know? I'm surprised to hear there's going to be more of this show, given the Netflix business model.
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Quite true...on both accounts.
The problem with paying attention to folks on Twitter or social media is well, who do you pay attention to? Because the fandom agrees on nothing, and fights over everything.
But in this day and age -- the majority or the power base with advertisers and subscription appears to be the liberal or progressive side of the fence. So the writers have thankfully been going in that direction (at least for the most part) and in part because they are liberal themselves. There are those who go in the opposite direction, I know they exist and seen it happen, I just don't watch, read or pay attention to their products. And they are losing ground, because the vast majority of our media offerings is catering to a more progressive base.
Case in point the fight over the Disney casting of Ariel in the live action version of The Little Mermaid.
But that's a drawback for those shows that would really shine with more seasons, y'know? I'm surprised to hear there's going to be more of this show, given the Netflix business model.
Netflix tends to prefer limited series. But it has longer ones. And it is getting a lot of positive attention because of Stranger Things and subscribers -- so it won't let go of it so soon. Stranger Things was even part of a joke with Amazon a while back.
So, at first, it looked like they weren't going with a fourth season, but I think they changed their minds again. It may just go four seasons -- due to the Netflix business model and the fact that Netflix is wee bit over-extended or so one would think. It has over 900 scripted programs and counting.
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Let me know when you see more about Alexei the scientist. He became my favorite new character out season three.
Steve and Robin’s dynamic gets better later on. Definitely another good part.