I haven't seen Rise, and may not...depends on how available it is on "on demand" and streaming, and how much I have to pay to see it. Also my mood.
But I do agree with you on how Rian Johnson saw Kylo Ren. He did not come across as remotely likable or redeemable at the end of Last Jedi, just the opposite. He wants power, and she ...wants a family. That's the big difference between them. He had a family and traded it in for power. Killing his father, and then his uncle, so he could get more. Similar in some respects to Dark Vader aka Anakin, who also traded family and love for power. Only to discover how empty and cold power truly was...and unsatisfying. There's always someone who wants to take if from you or manipulate you into giving it to them. In some respects Vader's arc is more interesting and better drawn than Kylo Ren's in part because Lucas built his back story better -- considering Lucas isn't necessarily stellar at back-story, that's saying something.
Abrams didn't give us any backstory in Force Awakens, just a tease and a wink at it. Enough to intrigue me and make me impatient for Last Jedi. But Rian sort of...subverts the expectations for it. Rey was just the child of traders, no one important, who happened to be on Tattoni at the same time as everyone else. Ben was a spoiled brat who craved the power his mother and uncle had, and resented his fly-by-night smuggler father, who couldn't quite settle down, no matter how much he wanted to. He felt ignored by his royal family of "heroes" and forgotten. Whether he was or not, isn't really important, he perceived it that way. Luke - ironically, finds himself in Obi Wan's shoes -- and fails Ben just as Obi Wan fails Anakin. He thinks he can teach the boy, but falls into the same traps the Jedi training Anakin had. And Rey, who craves family, in realizing her own is neither important nor wanted her nor exists - does the opposite of what Kylo thinks she'll do with the knowledge, she follows in her adoptive father/mentor Solo's footsteps, and goes with the adopted family of friends -- rejecting the power and psuedo-romance that he offers. She always would -- since he lost all chance with her by killing his father.
Last Jedi from a character and thematic angle actually works well. What didn't work was the execution. They tried to cram three films into one. Also the plot is...well difficult to follow?
I don't think Rian would have given Kylo/Rey shippers what they wanted. They were never getting that. Honestly did these people not see the original three films and the prequels? The pattern in the series kind of goes against a Kylo/Ren relationship. He's always going to die tragically.
no subject
But I do agree with you on how Rian Johnson saw Kylo Ren. He did not come across as remotely likable or redeemable at the end of Last Jedi, just the opposite. He wants power, and she ...wants a family. That's the big difference between them. He had a family and traded it in for power. Killing his father, and then his uncle, so he could get more. Similar in some respects to Dark Vader aka Anakin, who also traded family and love for power. Only to discover how empty and cold power truly was...and unsatisfying.
There's always someone who wants to take if from you or manipulate you into giving it to them. In some respects Vader's arc is more interesting and better drawn than Kylo Ren's in part because Lucas built his back story better -- considering Lucas isn't necessarily stellar at back-story, that's saying something.
Abrams didn't give us any backstory in Force Awakens, just a tease and a wink at it.
Enough to intrigue me and make me impatient for Last Jedi. But Rian sort of...subverts the expectations for it. Rey was just the child of traders, no one important, who happened to be on Tattoni at the same time as everyone else. Ben was a spoiled brat who craved the power his mother and uncle had, and resented his fly-by-night smuggler father, who couldn't quite settle down, no matter how much he wanted to. He felt ignored by his royal family of "heroes" and forgotten. Whether he was or not, isn't really important, he perceived it that way. Luke - ironically, finds himself in Obi Wan's shoes -- and fails Ben just as Obi Wan fails Anakin. He thinks he can teach the boy, but falls into the same traps the Jedi training Anakin had. And Rey, who craves family, in realizing her own is neither important nor wanted her nor exists - does the opposite of what Kylo thinks she'll do with the knowledge, she follows in her adoptive father/mentor Solo's footsteps, and goes with the adopted family of friends -- rejecting the power and psuedo-romance that he offers. She always would -- since he lost all chance with her by killing his father.
Last Jedi from a character and thematic angle actually works well. What didn't work was the execution. They tried to cram three films into one. Also the plot is...well difficult to follow?
I don't think Rian would have given Kylo/Rey shippers what they wanted. They were never getting that. Honestly did these people not see the original three films and the prequels? The pattern in the series kind of goes against a Kylo/Ren relationship. He's always going to die tragically.