rose_griffes | (no subject)

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I've been mulling over why I'm not one hundred percent thrilled about the possibility of BSG movies to be made after the series is complete. Here's a quote from the link:

The films would be about incidents in “Battlestar Galactica’s” past. They will not take place after the time frame of the series finale. And the stories in the proposed films will depend, at least in part, on what actors are available to work on them.

I think if I were a bigger fan of 'Razor' I'd be more excited. However... I never did make a post with my own thoughts about 'Razor,' partly because I saw it in a theatre and didn't have a way to watch the episode again at the time, but mostly because I didn't have much to say. I suppose I could have added it to my list of DVD's on Netflix, but I just didn't like it that much. I didn't hate it, but I wasn't that fond of it, didn't find that I learned much from it--other than the creepy hybrid's babbling, which was interesting, and that Lesbians Are Evil (and sponsored by Quizno's, if I had watched on TV).

Part of my blah reaction was because I found the whole 'Pegasus' arc to be well-done, but very dark. Those aren't episodes that I pop into the DVD player when I feel like having some light entertainment. I didn't want to revisit them. Give me a movie about the time on New Caprica and I'd be totally on board--and probably in the minority, heh. My love of that part of season three is apparently not something that lots of other fans share.

Also, I didn't want to have a new character be so dominant in the story. I see lots of fannish love out there for Kendra. I thought the actor did a great job, and made me feel more sympathy than I would have expected, but after the episode ended I didn't think about her again. I don't want her as the fifth cylon--though I'd deal with it if she is.

Thinking about Kendra specifically made me realize that the people who say the most about Kendra are Lee fans. At least, that's my perception. I wonder if that's the link that's missing for me--I like Lee but he's rarely my POV character when I'm watching the show. Definitely he's not my POV character in fanfic--he's hardly in any of the stuff I've written. I've tried writing about him but it's not easy for me.

So, a poll. Just to satisfy my own curiosity. Not that I expect much traffic here, but I like polls! They make me feel all scientific and stuff! *g*

[Poll #1195485]

Feel free to say stuff in the comments. Or not.

My end-of-year exams are NOT writing themselves.

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That's an interesting point - it does seem to be mostly Lee fans who are really into Kendra. I wonder if it's because, finally another character for him to have a dynamic with! Or because they're similar in some way? She has the whole repression thing working for her, and the parental issues, and the frustration with Starbuck. ;) I *did* like her, and I felt awful when she died ... and I'd probably have been more interested in her if she'd interacted more with Kara, heh. (I should really watch the DVD at some point, with the extra scenes.) I wouldn't mind more Kendra, but yeah, my interest in the movies will be higher if Kara's in them, by an exponential amount. *g* I'd still much rather watch Kendra than, like, the adventures of Husker as some people are suggesting.

ETA: More people aren't interested in the New Caprica period? Wow, I thought it was one of the best parts of season three, only I'm having a hard time rewatching it.

Edited 2008-05-29 02:58 (UTC)

I'd actually enjoy a redo on New Caprica but truthfully, I really don't know what could be explored that wouldn't be meh, because we would now know how it turned out, or would be pointless because everyone involved died.

I like Kendra as a character but I don't need to see her again. Personally, I wasn't impressed with Razor because.... I figured RDM and pals just couldn't resist the lesbian stuff and chickened out as most producers and writers do (JK Rowling, the producers of ER) do by coming up with the queers after the fact and or gaying up the background characters because they won't take the chance on the main characters. So of COURSE CAIN was a lesbo. A strong willed bitch being gay with the strongwilled Cylon? How daring to see the same old stereotype. ANd even better, the same old stereotype with a character who is promptly killed.

If RDM wanted points for daring, lets see Kara dumping Lee for Racetrack. Lets see Lee - a strong manly guy - have fling with Skulls. But no... we get the typical stereotype of the pining closet queer Felix chasing after a straight man who at best ignores him.

And aside from new weird permutations of who was secretly nailing who and how, what story is there to tell in BSG movies that is *important enough* to tell but not important enough to ever talk about before? I hate to be cynical but it feels like a "we can do this to make more bucks" thing. I'd watch... but frankly I don't have high expectations.

Give me a movie about the time on New Caprica and I'd be totally on board--and probably in the minority, heh.
I like your minority. I only worry because "Razor" pretty much ruined the Pegasus arc for me, and I'd hate for anything to ruin the New Caprica arc for me.

/unpopular opinion

Hmm, not sure that my opinion falls anywhere in that poll. Kendra Shaw can go jump off a bridge for all I care. Watching her in Razor was like reading someones OFC in a fan fic. I watch BSG for it's main cast of characters and Razor barely gave them the time of day. I was not overly amused by that fact.

Given a choice, I'd rather see NC stuff than Shaw stories. But going back in time seems like a bit of a waste to me. *shrugs* They probably can't make sequels because everyone is going to die in the end! I hope not :( But, why no sequels?

Hmm. Interesting to take the poll before reading the post. I like polls! But my needs were not met by the choices. Kara and Gaeta are my favorite characters. Kendra? Hmm. It would depend on what more we would see of her. I don't want to see her happy or whatever she was before Razor. She was more interesting after the Scylla, painful as it was for all involved. But how to do that? She's dead. (Unless she's a Cylon.) And like you, I don't want to know more about the Pegasus. That ship of doom? No, thank you. I think Kendra had her moment, I liked her as she was, mysterious and tormented. Anything before or after that she'd be different. All healed and stuff.

Unfortunately, I like the cast we have. The story that is unfolding. I want more of that. I don't want more of anything else.

And hey, New Caprica was dark, man. Suicide bombers, Ellen frakking Cavil, Tigh losing an eye. It was awful. But I could watch a little more about it. :-) But only a little. I think I have it! I don't like them on planets! Not Cylon-Occupied Caprica, not Caprica, not even Earth or my beloved Kobol. It's Battlestar Galactica. And that's where I want them to be.

Edited 2008-05-29 04:58 (UTC)

I wonder if it's because, finally another character for him to have a dynamic with! Or because they're similar in some way?

Yeah, I wondered about both reasons myself. Too bad no mostly-Lee fans have clicked on the poll yet--I'm curious to see what they'd say.

I should really watch the DVD at some point, with the extra scenes.
Yeah, I've been meaning to do that. It's not high on my list of things to get done right now.

More people aren't interested in the New Caprica period? Wow, I thought it was one of the best parts of season three, only I'm having a hard time rewatching it.

Yeah--well, I liked the Pegasus arc, I just don't want to watch it again. I'm guessing a lot of people feel that way about NC. But I *have* seen plenty of people who really disliked the whole NC thing as well. To each his own, I guess.

Eh, I'm not one of the fans pushing for a homosexual character on BSG. It didn't really matter to me in 'Razor' but even I though that making the big villain a lesbian was a poor (and *easy*) choice.

I'd actually enjoy a redo on New Caprica but truthfully, I really don't know what could be explored that wouldn't be meh, because we would now know how it turned out, or would be pointless because everyone involved died.

Yeah. I think the possibility of a great movie is there, but it would be tricky to find the right balance. I would rather have spent more time there during season three, but apparently that just wasn't possible for budgetary reasons.

I like your minority. I only worry because "Razor" pretty much ruined the Pegasus arc for me, and I'd hate for anything to ruin the New Caprica arc for me.

Yes. I mentioned to

rap541 that making a *good* NC movie would be tricky--I think it could be done right, but there are so many ways for it to go wrong... and I'd hate to have it be ruined in the way that the Pegasus arc was sort of ruined for you.

I watch BSG for it's main cast of characters and Razor barely gave them the time of day. I was not overly amused by that fact.

*nods* I do have a tendency to like nearly everyone in the ensemble cast, but some are definitely more equal than others, heh. Of course, if a NC movie was all about Jean Barolay, I'd probably love it--but I'm weird that way. Most people wouldn't agree.

Unfortunately, I like the cast we have. The story that is unfolding. I want more of that. I don't want more of anything else.

Yup. I think I'm usually most interested in moving forward--yet another reason I wasn't all that fond of 'Unfinished Business' (on top of the whole "stop hitting each other!!!" *cries* reaction I had).

And hey, New Caprica was dark, man. Suicide bombers, Ellen frakking Cavil, Tigh losing an eye. It was awful. But I could watch a little more about it. :-)

I think we all know why I could watch more of NC. Kara Kara Leoben Leoben Leoben. Also, Jean, Seelix, Chief and Anders blowing stuff up. Yay!

I think I have it! I don't like them on planets!

Hee! I think that's one of the main reasons I *liked* the New Caprica arc. And why I like my Jean-fic, and my Kara and Helo on Earth fics.
*is amused*

No, I really could care less if anyone is gay, to be quite honest. But if you're going to go there, at this point, the nasty bitchy woman being a lesbian, or the effeminate non violent guy being homo? Is neither subtle or daring. There's a point where the squee got irritating when it was very much a stereotypical presentation of the bitch as lesbian.

So to a point, the second Gina and Cain got it on, I pretty much got annoyed because to me, it seemed like a very cheesy way to shut the fans pushing for a gay character up. RDM gets all the points for including a gay character, and the cons continue to display a funny, if at times rather offensive blooper reel of Mr. Gaeta making stereotypical passes at men, while BSG is heralded as open minded. ( A lil bit of a rant and I apologize - but the blooper reel wouldn't be so funny if AJ was playing a racial stereotype)

As for New Caprica - while in some ways I thought it was a dumb place to go - in that I couldn't see anyone just thinking the Cylons wouldn't find them - if they were going to go there, they should have done the job and not wrapped it up in three episodes. I actually thought one of the biggest mistakes made was taking everything in Downloaded - where the CYlons seemed to be having a genuine revelation about killing humans, and chucking it so that we could have Cavil cheerfully ordering deaths. How fascinating would it have been if people on both sides of the fence - human and cylon - had started genuinely buying into the "lets unite and live together" stuff? Or if the CYlons were going to play the oppression game - then have the budget to show it. There were so many missed opportunities with that story line.... and forgive me again for being ranty but there was no need for a reset button and after pressing the new caprica button, everyone basically ended up in the same place.

Which is why I am not sure it could be revisited.

Thinking about Kendra specifically made me realize that the people who say the most about Kendra are Lee fans. At least, that's my perception. I wonder if that's the link that's missing for me--I like Lee but he's rarely my POV character when I'm watching the show.
I am curious about that too. I'm definitely a Lee-pov-er and I loved Kendra so I'd totally fit with that profile. And I do run into a few other Lee fans who liked her a lot. But some other fans too.

Jean is actually one minor character that always intrigued me and I wish they'd done more with her. I think the show missed out there, especially in regard to her friendship with Sam. He showed me more emotion when Jean died than when his wife died.

Heh, apparently the Lee fans aren't exactly reading my journal in large numbers. I can't imagine why?! *g* possibly because I hardly ever talk about him. Too bad, though, I'd be curious to see the poll results with more of their (your) input.

That's interesting. My husband is a Lee POV person and he got really interested in Kendra, and he has become convinced that she is the 5th Cylon. :)

I, on the other hand, think Kendra was sort of interesting in "Razor" and I was perfectly willing to watch her there, and her interactions with Cain in the beginning of the movie were intriguing. But I could kind of care less if I ever see her again. Actually, no I take that back. I think what

daybreak777 got it right when she said that Kendra is the most interesting in that moment in "Razor". We just didn't get to know her enough to make me care about learning more, and she so refused to show much vulnerability, and so she always was at such a distance to us as friends.

When I think about the characters that I care about, it's the ones that have gotten a chance to show at least vulnerability. It's how I identify with them. Kendra was interesting from a distance, but once she left the screen, it was like babies with shiny objects - she might as well not be there anymore. I didn't care to think about her. Come to think about it, this might be why I was most intrigued by her relationship with Cain - because it was the one time I could identify with her. Cain really put her out of her comfort zone, and it was only in those moments before the Attack that we got to see her be vulnerable.

I know that the whole thematic point of "Razor" was supposed to be about shedding your humanity in order to become a tool of war. That's clinically interesting from a distance and for a short time, but for me, it doesn't have staying power. I just don't care.

On the other hand, New Caprica was about seeing so many people outside of their comfort zones. I have to admit though that on first glance, what's interesting to me about New Caprica is filling the missing information gaps. I really wanted to know how the Resistance got to the point where they thought suicide bombers was a good idea (This whole question fascinated me so much, I even wrote a whole multipart fic trying to explain how people like Tyrol and Anders could come to terms with that). And I was really intrigued at how (despite what the Cylons seemed to think) no one was looking to Laura Roslin to lead the people against Baltar's administration, even BEFORE the Cylons came.

And like you with Leoben and Kara, I of course want to find out what the heck Baltar and Gaeta were up to during that missing year. ;D I mean, Gaeta said yes to leaving the military for New Caprica, and he's such a responsible guy, he wouldn't have given up everything just because of heroism (or attraction, if you want to go there). Why did he say yes? How good was he at the job? And even if I didn't get to find out much about Baltar and Gaeta in the missing year per se, I was also kind of curious about how Baltar's administration went from bright shiny new hope to a cynical, spiraling failure mired in booze, pills and hookers. (I mean, I know Baltar well enough at this point that I can pretty much guess how that happened, but still, I was curious about the details. :P )

Wow, I hadn't expected this comment to go on so long as it did. I kind of hijacked your journal...

Kendra was interesting from a distance, but once she left the screen, it was like babies with shiny objects - she might as well not be there anymore. I didn't care to think about her.

*nod* Yes, that's how I feel--I liked her, but I wasn't so drawn to her that I continued to speculate about her life after the episode was over. Plus, y'know... she got killed at the end. Heh. "That does put a damper on our relationship." (sorry, random quote probably not comprehensible)

I was also kind of curious about how Baltar's administration went from bright shiny new hope to a cynical, spiraling failure mired in booze, pills and hookers. (I mean, I know Baltar well enough at this point that I can pretty much guess how that happened, but still, I was curious about the details. :P )

Actually, yes, I'm curious too--and Gaeta enabling this by being so competent that things get done in spite of Baltar's failures. New Caprica has lots of unexplained moments, both before and after the Occupation.

I really wanted to know how the Resistance got to the point where they thought suicide bombers was a good idea (This whole question fascinated me so much, I even wrote a whole multipart fic trying to explain how people like Tyrol and Anders could come to terms with that).

Not 'Soul Meets Body,' is it? Because it's the right time frame, but no Tyrol and Anders that I can recall.

Yeah, so would I. *g* But in any case there aren't as many of us as there are Kara fans. I do think you were on to something though.

My husband is a Lee POV person and he got really interested in Kendra, and he has become convinced that she is the 5th Cylon. :)
Sounds like me! :) I would *love* Kendra to be the 5th Cylon.

I do understand what you're saying about Kendra not showing any vulnerability, though I wouldn't put it that way myself. I read a lot of vulnerability in her, but she definitely hid behind a very strong shield, she was very self-contained and private. That appeals to me and made me all the more intrigued by her. So I do think it might be partly the personality type I'm more used to reading. Whereas I find it hard to see vulnerability in Kara except when it's bleedingly obvious (like in her Socrata scenes)--while I notice lots of Kara fans seem to see it a lot more of the time. To me, Kara, until this season, was largely masked off for me. I liked her, I thought she was cool, but I couldn't really get into her and she was so tough that I rarely connected with her. I used to wish she'd show more vulnerability! Whereas with Kendra, straight away I felt like I could tell her stillness and composure was self-defensive.

I second your interest in the deterioration of the Blatar administration though. I'd love some more on Baltar and Gaeta in that period. (I have zero interest in seeing any more of the resistance though--I feel like we got to see everything we needed to.)

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