Yeah, I'm saying more stuff about Doctor Who.

[rose_griffes]

Hm. First: I have a few fics bookmarked for Doctor Who. They are brilliant. I need more.

Second: thoughts on Nine, Ten, Captain Jack, the Master, Martha and... stuff.

We first met Captain Jack in season one, when he tries to run a con job and ends up doing a lot of damage instead. I thought he was smarmy (which, yeah, he was) and too handsome. I liked how he was a catalyst for Rose and Nine getting closer, though. And Nine's interactions with him were just fun.

Skip ahead to season three and we have Ten and Martha. I like Martha lots. I, uh, like her more than I liked Rose Tyler. (Sorry, Pataka!)

Oh wait, lost track of my point. So: Captain Jack comes back, much to Ten's chagrin. We learn that Nine abandoned Jack because he's "not right." And now it's like Ten has to punish him for.... being who he is, which is not his fault. Jack didn't ask to be made immortal.

Every time Captain Jack introduces himself in his usual charming way, Ten has to say something like, "Stop it," or "Not now." What annoys me about this is that Jack doesn't appear to be taking more than a few moments to be suave. He's not groping people or running into a dark corridor to shag anyone--he's working to help the mission. And then Ten goes and (re)breaks Jack's time travel device. Because only Ten gets to have that kind of power.

Ten is the judge in a way that he shouldn't get to be, and he's thoughtless of individual humans (or almost-humans, whatever).

I saw someone mention recently that Ten turned human was not as benevolent as the Master turned human. The Master as a human was a kindly inventor doing his best to save humanity. Ten as a human was... oh, not a bad fellow. Clearly Ten couldn't insert himself into society in a position of great power, because the Family of Blood might have sniffed him out sooner. But he did have a willingness to sacrifice the boys at the prep school for the fight. Not to mention Ten choosing 1913 to hide in, stranding Martha in a time period where racism was a fundamental part of society at all levels.

Those were really good episodes, don't get me wrong. I'll probably watch them again. But Ten is... *sigh* I like him, as long as I don't think about him too hard.

Oh, and since I mentioned the Master: I'm amused at the show writers running with the idea of another time lord, since the Doctor was supposed to be the last one. Sort of like the Daleks, I guess--whatever works for making a plotline. As much as I reveled in the Master's brief turn on the show, I also loved it that Lucy shot him. Lucy and the Master are my favorite evil world-destroying couple now. (Sorry, Spike and Dru!)

Fascinating that the Master chose not to regenerate. Apparently psychic hatesex being imprisoned with the Doctor just wasn't appealing enough. That last brief glimpse of Lucy picking up the ring from the Master's funeral pyre was awesomely ominous. (Awesomely ominous awesomely ominous awesomely ominous--that's a cool phrase to repeat...)

As much as I loved Martha Jones, I'm glad to see her leave on her terms. That's something Rose didn't get--or Sarah Jane, for that matter (the first time around, anyway). I'd put this up there with my satisfaction over Mickey Smith's choice to go to the alternate universe.

Season three general conclusions: the first half of the season was enjoyable, the second half was excellent. Doctor Who does multi-part episodes very well. John Simm is to blame for my latest villain crush.

eta: WHAAAAAT? The season three DVD sets are listed at $58.99 (US) on amazon.com. I... WHAT? That's ridiculous. And that's the marked-down price--they're even more expensive on deepdiscountdvd.com. Thirteen episodes--that comes out to more than $4.50 per episode!

Comments

[lyssie.livejournal.com]

Ten needs slapping. Trufax. He is an excitable, stupid, child on a sugar high. Sigh.

I disliked him as a human (to be fair, it doesn't help that I'd read Human Nature eons ago, and still remember bits with Seven and Benny), and sort of... hated that he was very much a product of his time.

Otoh, I adore Derek Jacobi and shall be forever saddened that we didn't get to see him be evil at Ten. sigh.

Off the top of my head...

Susan, Jamie, Zoe, Sarah Jane (the first time through), Dodo, Liz Shaw, Adric, and Peri didn't leave of their own choosing, either (and I'm mis-laying the earlier eras AND the extended universe). Some because of the Doctor's choice, some because of the time lords themselves. Dodo got written out, Liz Shaw presumably wandered off to be brilliant at Cambridge--neither of them had goodbye scenes.

So it was nice to see Martha get to choose, yes. (Sally Sparrow had a choice as well, despite not being a traveling companion)

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

Ten needs slapping. Trufax. He is an excitable, stupid, child on a sugar high. Sigh.

Some of the time I get it--what so much of fandom sees in him. He can be absolutely adorable. But other times... not so much.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And then Ten goes and (re)breaks Jack's time travel device. Because only Ten gets to have that kind of power.

Well, he sort of has to because of Doylist reasons, otherwise Jack's spin-off show would have had a serious plot problem. :) To wit: if Jack could have used that device in Torchwood, three quarters of the episodes in each season would have ended after five minutes. So the showrunners had to come up with an explanation why he can't.

(Speaking of Torchwood, my sympathies for Jack re: the Doctor is a wee bit limited by knowing how Jack works as a team leader, and how he spent those 150 years. If you want a Watsonian reasoning for the Doctor disabling Jack's time travel device, let's just say making sure that Torchwood as an institution doesn't have one is really a good idea.)

Human selves: necessities like blending in for the John Smith persona aside, my own impression was that you also see the part each Time Lord represses. In the Master's case, that would be the ability to be kind and selfless, working for the greater good. In the Doctor's case, it would be being a conformist (which he never was, hence running from his people from the get go), someone completly integrated into society and playing by their rules.

Another Time Lord: well, given that the Master was one of the best known and quintessential parts of Old Who, and the love/hate relationship with the Doctor through the ages and their incarnations is truly epic with several decades of tv running, we were all expecting him to be back sooner or later. Re: the choice not to regenerate - so he could finally win and land that devastating emotional blow, which is very him. So is securing himself a survival venue via the ring, because there would be no point if he couldn't gloat about finally winning later.

I do like Lucy (as you know from my story), but the difference to Spike and Dru for me is that there is no equality here. I'm pretty sure the Master was genuinely fond of her (in as much as he can be), but more like he's fond of the Teletubbies. A pretty toy (and also another way to rile the Doctor because Lucy is a clear parody of Jo Grant, who was Three's companion and the one the Master met most often), not a partner. And that's leaving aside the bruises and marks of abuse on her in Last of the Time Lords.

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

(Speaking of Torchwood, my sympathies for Jack re: the Doctor is a wee bit limited by knowing how Jack works as a team leader, and how he spent those 150 years. If you want a Watsonian reasoning for the Doctor disabling Jack's time travel device, let's just say making sure that Torchwood as an institution doesn't have one is really a good idea.)

Useful information, thank you. I was wondering about that. I haven't had much interest in watching Torchwood, in part because of how Captain Jack operated before he met Nine and Rose. I didn't have much trust in him without the Doctor and Rose to keep him from acting out of strict self-interest.

Human selves: necessities like blending in for the John Smith persona aside, my own impression was that you also see the part each Time Lord represses. In the Master's case, that would be the ability to be kind and selfless, working for the greater good. In the Doctor's case, it would be being a conformist (which he never was, hence running from his people from the get go), someone completly integrated into society and playing by their rules.

That makes sense to me; it's a fascinating view of both characters.

Another Time Lord: well, given that the Master was one of the best known and quintessential parts of Old Who, and the love/hate relationship with the Doctor through the ages and their incarnations is truly epic with several decades of tv running, we were all expecting him to be back sooner or later.

Oops, I keep forgetting just how long different versions of this show have been around. Funny, considering that I do actually have vague memories of watching Four with my dad when I was very young. (The floppy scarf and wild hair made an impression. My dad stopped watching when he regenerated into Five--a fact that I find amusing now, considering the many fandom wars over which doctor is 'better'.)

Re: the choice not to regenerate - so he could finally win and land that devastating emotional blow, which is very him. So is securing himself a survival venue via the ring, because there would be no point if he couldn't gloat about finally winning later.

That's one reason why I liked your story so much--because Lucy wins, in that scenario.

I do like Lucy (as you know from my story), but the difference to Spike and Dru for me is that there is no equality here. I'm pretty sure the Master was genuinely fond of her (in as much as he can be), but more like he's fond of the Teletubbies. A pretty toy (and also another way to rile the Doctor because Lucy is a clear parody of Jo Grant, who was Three's companion and the one the Master met most often), not a partner. And that's leaving aside the bruises and marks of abuse on her in Last of the Time Lords.

Good point. I think what's interesting about Lucy and the Master as a couple is that for that one episode, she's about as gleeful as he is over the imminent destruction of human civilization. I want to know why--aside from her intention of being the consort of the ruler of the world, that is. Having seen the 'end' of the universe doesn't seem like an adequate explanation. I'm also curious about the alternate life (lives) she could have lived if she hadn't met Harold Saxon. Would she have found some other destructive partner? The reporter who talked to her described her as not very bright, but there was something going on in her head that made her different.

But yes, Lucy isn't his equal, and the marks of abuse are exactly why I prefer your story over what will presumably become canon later--that the Master comes back. (I don't know many spoilers for season four, so I don't know if it's happened already or not. And now I have horrifying thoughts in my head of some relative of Lucy's finding the ring after Lucy finally dies and putting it on...)

When you wrote that Lucy is a parody of Jo Grant--is it because of the physical resemblance?

I. Lucy

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Story: yes, that was the basic idea which inspired me - a scenario where Lucy wins and not because she does what the Master wants her to, but because he underestimated her.

Lucy's keenness on world destruction aside from the end of the universe experience: versaphile in her epic WIP Praxis (which covers the entire year that wasn't; it's a Doctor/Master slash story, but Lucy plays a major, major part in it) came up with a harrowing explanation. Here's the relevant excerpt:

"Why are you doing this?" he rasps. "Why are you --" he coughs "-- helping him?"

"I suppose it must seem strange to you," Lucy says, a distant look in her eyes. "But I love him. He saved me, you see. From the evils of the world. From myself." She looks down at the Doctor, meeting his eyes. "I was once like you. Locked away, punishing myself." She reaches down and brushes hair from his forehead.

The Doctor turns his head away. He doesn't want her pity, her sympathy. She needs saving from the Master, not by him. "You're destroying your own species. Don't you care?"

"Yes. I'm glad."

The Doctor stares at her in disbelief.

When she smiles, there's madness in her eyes. "The Earth doesn't deserve your sacrifice, Doctor. It isn't worth saving."

"You're wrong."

Lucy shakes her head. "Harry's told me all about you. How you rejected your whole species for a better life. How you needed to leave them behind so badly." She gives a delicate laugh. "We both know that need to leave."

"I didn't want to destroy them."

"But you did," she says, gently. "We've made the same choices."

"No," the Doctor rasps. "They're nothing like the same."

She looks at him pityingly. "I know it hurts. But it feels so much better when you accept it. Harry showed me that. I believe he can show you, too." She looks away, stirs the mashed potatoes with her spoon. "Would you like to know how?"

The Doctor stays silent.

"I tried to kill myself," she says, almost dreamily. "My father had me taken away. It was very quiet and green, very beautiful, but it was a prison. Harry found me. He saved me. He killed my father for me." She smiles. "I was so grateful."

"How can you be grateful?" the Doctor says, aghast.

Lucy looks down at him, her eyes suddenly cold. "Because of what he did. My father... he blamed me for my mother's death. She died giving birth to me, so her life became mine. Do you understand?"

The Doctor nods, feeling a wave of disgust and pity. "I'm sorry."

"I became his perfect wife," she says, a quiver in her voice. "When I couldn't live with myself anymore, I tried to make it stop. Then I tried again. I could never take enough pills, you see. Not when he always knew where I was."

She looks away, stares at the wall, distant and almost vacant. "Harry hated the world as much as I did. That was what brought us together. For better or for worse." She looks down at him, focused again.

Lucy and Jo Grant: no, it's not just the physical resemblance. Jo, like Lucy, came from an aristocratic, well-to-do background and was dismissed and patronized as "none-too-bright but well-meaning", in short, as what today is called "eye-candy and a bimbo". She and the Master got introduced in the same story, btw, Terror of the Autons, and she was the only companion he came to sort of respect eventually (while she treated him like an annoying relative); Jo is also the only companion who got the Doctor to 'fess up on his, err, mixed feelings about the Master. This was when the Master had temporarily been captured by UNIT, and the Doctor visited him, ostensibly to check whether the Master had an evil scheme going on; actually, he did, but that wasn't the point for, quoth Jo:

Jo: You felt sorry for him, didn't you? You wanted to see whether he's alright.
Doctor: Well, we were friends once. Very good friends. In fact, you might say were were - at school together.

("At school together": oh, the English and their euphemisms.)

Re: I. Lucy

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

Oh, I can see mental illness as a very plausible background for why Lucy is the way she is. Interesting story excerpt--effectively creepy, with the mentions of Lucy's father. One of the truly enjoyable aspects of fanfic is 'trying on' different ideas for secondary characters, since the show doesn't have time to address all aspects of their lives.

As for physical resemblances, having seen photos of Lucy and of Romana II around the same time (without knowing either's role in the show), I had wondered if they were supposed to be connected in some way. Apparently not, though.

("At school together": oh, the English and their euphemisms.)

Hah! I tend to be pretty oblivious to slash; it doesn't interest me. Doctor/Master is blatantly obvious, though. It's not just the dialogue, either (though that's pretty slashy--"I like it when you use my name.").

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Doctor/Master is one of those things where you don't really have to wear slash googles, because their behaviour towards each other doesn't really make sense without the ex boyfriend factor. Particular cases in point:

Mind of Evil: which plays out like fanfic, in that at one point the Master has the Doctor captured, after some banter tortures him a bit, one of the Doctor's hearts stops, the Master completely freaks out and quickly saves the Doctor's life, complete with clutching and "come on, come on" etc.

Frontiers in Space: mid-argument, the Master proposes marriage sharing the galaxy and really can't understand why the Doctor doesn't just say yes

Sea Devils: this is the Doctor at his most flirtatious; they fence a little, the Doctor wins, steals the Master's sandwich ("violent exercise always makes me hungry") and then hands the Master back the sword so they can fence some more. This is also the story where early on when the Doctor spots the Master, he says, and that's a direct quote, "ha! He put on weight!"

Five Doctors: in which the other Time Lords hire the Master to save the Doctor. No, really. To which the Master says: "A universe without the Doctor scarcesly bears thinking about" (another direct quote) and acts accordingly.

Mark of the Rani: (Back at the academy, the Rani was the Hermione to the Doctor and the Master being Harry and Ron, and she is SO exasparated with both of them; this is the episode of three way Time Lord snark, and it's joy):

Master: *pretends to be around by accident*
Rani: *rolls eyes* Don't bother. The Doctor is here. Your obsession really is pathetic. I'm not passing notes between you again.

Survival: "There has always been an attraction between us". You don't say, Seven.

Now, all of this MIGHT be explainable in an an utterly platonic fashion, but I haven't yet seen anybody manage it. Doesn't mean that the slashiest of all phonecalls wasn't a gratifying bonus. *g*

Vid vids vids

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Regarding the show in its many incarnations: here's a great vid going from 1963 till the end of the third season of New Who, to give you a sense of all that history in fun form (it's one of my favourite vids):



Here's a New Who only vid, an ode to the companions:




Here's one specifically devoted to the Master and his history with the Doctor:



And finally, here's one devoted to Donna who is my favourite New Who companion. It's not really spoilery, but it gives you a great sense of her relationship with the Doctor (she's not in love with him, slaps him and hugs him depending on what is appropriate *g*; but they're really great mates, and he plainly adores her)

Re: Vid vids vids

[rose-griffes.livejournal.com]

Ah, those were all quite enjoyable, thank you!

I liked Donna from the first time I saw her, and I've been looking forward to the time when she finally comes back. That was an adorable vid for her and the Doctor.